Update the SUBM tag in the HEAD to allow for Previous contributors

[rhires]

The SUBM tag assumes that all the records "to be contributed by the submitter referenced in the HEAD, are by the same person", but what I would like is if I can show in this tag in the HEAD that it's really a series of docs put together in one place by me (as the most recent submitter), but I also wish to show that, say, "the line from person A came from submitter A, and the line for person B came from submitter B", or that the submitter previous to me, where I got ALL the data, is from a single source, and that I added to it. It would be useful for traceability.

Example: if I got a GEDCOM from my cousin, that I then added to/extended, I want to be able to add that person's contribution.

n SUBM
+1 NAME

+1 PCON - previous contributor {0:M}
+2 NAME
+2 - other relevant details
+2 DATE - this is when I added the other contribution to the overall data
</>

I'm unsure of how to identify what the overall contribution was, except maybe a XREF to other SUBM data elsewhere in the GEDCOM.

[Norwegian-Sardines]

The SUBM tag is used in multiple places.

• HEADER
• Family_Record
• Individual_Record

If some other individual or entity provided you with (contributed) the information about a particular person or family you would include the SUBM tag and the subsequent Submitter_Record.

If you received a GEDCOM from another person that added the individual or family to your database, I would assume the appropriate action would be to either automatically add the submitter record connection for that contributor to the INDI.SUBM tag. I would also think that the GEDCOM already provided the Submitter_Record for their GEDCOM payload, but the reality is they probably did not!

You on the other hand would enter your submitter information into a Submitter_Record and link to it in the GEDCOM.HEADER when you export your GEDCOM!

I personally would like to see the SUBM tag added to the Multimedia_Record for people the supplied media to me in their GEDCOM transmittal to me or if they sent me an image I'm using in my GEDCOM.

I would also Like to see a subtag to the SUBM tag for DATE to identify when this Individual or Family was added to my GEDCOM, a submitter could transmit a GEDCOM to me multiple time with updates and I'd like to track which transmission added the Individual or Family:
n SUBM @XREF:SUBM@
+1 DATE

[tychonievich]

HEAD.SUBM was added to support a tool that allowed people to post them GEDCOM files on floppy disks, to represent the single point of contact for the data in the file. It was similar to what we'd now think of as a "uploader." Hence it's {0:1} cardinality.

INDI.SUBM and FAM.SUBM are more like lists of contributors, and have {0:M} cardinality.

In 7.0, you can use relocated standard structures to add SUBM anywhere else you wish them to be. I'm open to adding them to more places in the spec, though finding a balance between enough places to be useful and not so many places as to make implementation burdensome is a challenge. I'm open to adding them to all records except SUBM, and maybe to all events (though I'd want a clear case for that latter change).

There is currently no way to give ambiguous "parts of this file were provided by X" attribution. If you created the current file, you're that file's HEAD.SUBM; if you contributed to one of its INDI or FAM structures, you're on that record's list of SUBM; but we do not have a way to say "user X provided some of the data in the file" without being more specific as to what they contributed, which seems (if I understand correctly) to be the intent of the PCON proposal. I wonder if some type of SOUR for the entire file might be more versatile; my file's SOUR was this other user's GEDCOM file (or book or other compiled family history)?

[tychonievich]

Discussed in steering committee 1 OCT 2024

• We think that the recommendation to use INDI.SUBM and FAM.SUBM from @Norwegian-Sardines answers the question "I also wish to show that, say, "the line from person A came from submitter A, and the line for person B came from submitter B"."
• We like @Norwegian-Sardines suggestion to add OBJE.SUBM; this has been proposed before and is tracked in Add SUBM to every other record type #532
• We agree that there are cases where entire GEDCOM files are prepared by one person, then modified by a second person, then exported, and that some (but not all) users wish to track this sequence of file owners. We think that this can be stored in the GEDCOM file by listing the SUBM for each INDI/FAM; it's not clear to us what additional utility would be added by putting the full set of SUBM that have ever contributed to the file in the HEAD as well.

We do not see additional action items, so we are closing this issue. If we have missed something, feel free to post a follow-up and reopen it.