Suggestions for Improving the r/Minecraft Linkflair Categories #7
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✔️ 1. Maps linkflair - Still need to discuss on which texture to use. |
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@redstonehelper adding maps and news, removing help, renaming creative and survival, the thing about art, relabelling tutorials sound good to me |
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Great, I like the direction in which this is going. I just thought that I'd offer some of my own thoughts here (the original post above was an attempt to summarize the expressed opinions of the community):
It's unclear to me if the "@redstonehelper" messages above are from redstonehelper, or directed at him. I'm going to assume that they're from him: Sounds good, redstonehelper, but one thing you mentioned is "renaming creative and survival". As far as I know, there's no proposal on the table to rename "Survival". It seems appropriate to keep that category as is, because many subreddit users care more about builds created in Survival mode, and many posted inventions are only useful for Survival mode. There just isn't nearly the same interest in knowing the manner in which non-Survival builds were created. Also, you mentioned that "relabelling tutorials sound good" to you. In case you didn't notice the footnote, the 16 upvotes counted toward that proposal may have been intended to show support to another proposal in that same message. Personally, I can't see any good argument for that proposal. |
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Incidentally, RSH's github isn't @redstonehelper, so it doesn't ping him at all; his account is @rsh1 |
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Thanks, aperson. I'm guessing that we don't need to ping him again, since you already pinged him in your message. |
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Results from the latest discussion. This is what is agreed on so far. Changes:
Resulting filters after update: (8 total)
To add (Partially CSS, partially sub): Wiki page and link to it detailing the usage of the linkflairs. |
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Work has started. |
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Thanks for the update, Mustek. I think that this list is significantly more useful than the initial 8 linkflairs, and definitely represents progress. A few thoughts: 1. FanArt: "FanArt" is good. It's more more specific than simply "Art". It strongly implies that it's only for out-of-game art, which in turn strongly implies that in-game art belongs in the "Builds" category, which is great, because it serves to make all of the linkflair categories more distinct and clear, which makes the entire linkflair system more useful for everyone. My one concern about the term "FanArt" is that it has a diminutive connotation. Minecraft is a game that's remarkable in the degree to which the community of players are active co-creators of the game. We're continually remixing it, and pushing its development forward; in terms of memes and mythology; in terms of building and mapmaking techniques; in terms of third-party tools, plugins, and resource packs; and in terms of suggestions and mods that get integrated into the vanilla game. We rightfully have a sense of ownership of the game. "FanArt" implies a different type of relationship between the players and the game, one in which the game developers are the only ones with the authority to say what use game characters and environments is legitimate or "cannon", and everything else is somehow less important. If we wanted to avoid that connotation, I would suggest "Art in Other Media". But if there's some reason that it's important for the linkflair title to be shorter, "FanArt" is okay. 2. Tutorials: A Book is definitely better than and Enchanted Book, but as a reminder, a Written Book is probably even better, since the later represents a collection of ideas actually put down by a player in a form that other players can access, which is what a tutorial is, and the former is an inaccessible abstraction of the later that was not necessarily created by a player. Most users probably won't notice the difference, but my guess is that many will pick up on it subconsciously, and that that will make the icon seem more appropriate to them. 3. Gameplay: I'm interesting in hearing what the rationale is behind this proposal. It really stands out from all the other linkflair categories in its degree of vagueness. All the other categories are neatly clearly defined and distinct by their titles alone, except for this one. I'm sure that the plan is define it clearly in the wiki page for linkflairs, and such a wiki page would definitely be helpful, but we can't rely on subreddit users to read that, and we need to expect that most won't. Therefore, we should endeavor to choose linkflair categories that are distinct and clear from their titles alone. My best guess is that the intention is for this flair to be used for both LP's and gifs. It's unclear if anything else might belong in this category, and it's likely that even people posting LP's and gifs might not be totally confident that his is the appropriate flair for their post. It's unclear to me why we might want to include LP's and gifs under the same category. They're two distinct types of content, and somebody searching for one probably won't be searching for the other, so combining two types of content under single flair makes that flair less useful. My suggestion would be to keep the "Let's Plays" flair as "Let's Plays", or to eliminate it entirely, and split "Builds" into "Survival Builds" and "Other Builds", making the those the first and second flair categories listed, for clarity. As I've argued above, subreddit users often express a lot of care about whether builds are created in Survival mode or not, so creating a flair to represent that would simply be reflecting something the community is already doing, and making information that people do care about more easily accessible. Then again, maybe I'm missing what we're trying to do with the "Gameplay" category. Please let me know if that's the case. I'll think on the issue of flair icons, and reply in a separate message. @rsh1: Pinging you in case you're interested, redstonehelper, since you contributed to his conversation above. |
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Sorry for the delay in this posting this message. As I see it, we have three options for creating the flair icons:
My thinking is that using game textures for all of the icons is probably ideal if we can find textures that we feel are suitable for each of the flairs, since that helps to give the subreddit more of a feeling of legitimately being an intrinsic part of ecosystem built around the game (which it is), rather than a separate organization with its own agenda. And if we can't find textures that we feel are suitable for one or more of the flairs, I think that any custom icons we use should fit perfectly in with the visual style of those icons that are from game textures. Thoughts on specific flairs (listed in the order I think it makes the most sense for them to be listed in the subreddit sidebar): 1. Builds: If we're going to have one flair category for both Survival builds and other builds, my pick would probably be a Grass block (actual size), since it's both a block that people can build on in Survival, and build with in Creative and 3rd-party programs. It's a basic neutral block that all players interact with at some point in their building histories, so it doesn't seem to be biased toward any specific type or style of build. If we do eliminate the "Gameplay" flair, and split the "Build" flair into "Survival Builds" and "Other Builds", I think that the current Pickaxe/Spawn Egg pairing that we're currently using to represent the "Survival" and "Creative" categories respectively would work well. I would, however, suggest that we use an Iron Pickaxe, rather than a Gold Pickaxe, since that's probably the most neutral tool material that will not distract users from focusing on the type of tool. The Spawn Egg icon is a little less perfectly appropriate as a symbol for "Other Builds" than a Pickaxe is for "Survival Builds", but I'm a bit at a loss for what else we could use. The MCEdit Icon (actual size) probably does a better job of symbolizing that concept than a Spawn Egg, but some people will recognize where that icon is from, so that could make it seem like the subreddit is showing favoritism toward that particular program. If we do want to go for that icon, getting permission shouldn't be an issue. CodeWarrior (MCEdit's creator) recently came out of his reclusion. If we do use a Spawn Egg, I would suggest using something other than a Sheep Egg. I find the pink color of the Sheep Egg distracting. I would suggest a Zombie Egg, or a Skeleton Egg. 2. Maps: As I see it, we have two good options, the Filled Map item texture (actual size), or a shrunk version of the texture used to represent held maps (actual size). Personally, I don't think that the Filled Map item texture looks very much like a map, or is very recognizable, and since it's my understanding that most players use maps very little in-game, my guess is that that symbol would not immediately and clearly communicate the concept of "Maps" to most subreddit users. (It should perhaps be noted that at least two people agreed with the counterassertion that that texture actually is widely recognizable). My vote, then, would be to use a shrunk version of the texture used to represent held maps. If we do decide to go with that, it might make sense to customize the terrain shown on the map a bit to make it more recognizably terrain. Perhaps a river running down one side would be better than a few small ponds, for example. 3. Redstone: The Redstone Dust texture that we're already using to represent this flair is perfect. 4. CommandBlocks: The Command Block texture that we're already using to represent this flair is perfect. 5. Tutorials: The Written Book texture (actual size) is perfect for this. 6. Gameplay: As I mentioned above, based upon the available information, I'm not in support of the addition of this flair. But if we are to add it, it seems appropriate to have something that either represents players, like a Steve head item icon (actual size), or a silhouette of the player body, like the current RMCT logo (which, btw, I think is symbolically terrible as a symbol for RMCT, but could be good for this use); or something that represents non-building-focused gameplay, like a Boat (actual size), or perhaps a mix of player and mob heads (actual size) Another option would be to invite an artist to create a pixel art video camera in the same style as the Minecraft item icons. From the above options, I think that my pick would probably be the Boat. I'm not sure if I can articulate why at the moment. 7. FanArt: The Painting texture that we're already using to represent the "Art" flair is perfect. 8. News: The Paper (actual size), Sign (actual size), and Filled Map (actual size) textures are all good. The Sign is probably least desirable, because the symbolism isn't quite right. The type of information that signs convey is usually something with longer-term use than news. It's often directions or instructions. Between the Filled Map texture and the Paper texture, the Written Map texture probably looks more like a newspaper, and the Paper looks more like documentation or something used for business. So based on the appearance of the textures alone, the Written Map would probably be the better choice. But many players will recognize that the Filled Map texture represents a Filled Map in-game, which may make the use of that texture to represent "News" less symbolically appropriate for them. I think, therefore, that the Paper texture is our best choice. Whatever we do, I think that it would be a good policy to post a message with the linkflairs we decide on, asking for feedback from subreddit users, encouraging them to both suggest alterations t the flair categories, and create their own flair icons that that they feel may work better than what we've chosen. This is, after all, a community of empowered creators. It makes sense to create opportunities for everyone to participate in the decisions regarding how the subreddit is organized, and doing so will likely result in a better final product. I would be happy to draft such a message up for one of you guys to make any alterations you feel are appropriate to and post under your name. |
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Re: the news icon. I'd say that the point of the sign is to let someone On Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 01:13 RobinClaassen [email protected] wrote:
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I agree with you that the Paper texture doesn't look great on a light background, but I do think that our highest priority here needs to be choosing flair icons that clearly communicate what they're meant to represent in a manner that seems intuitively correct and easy to remember for users. One thing that bothers me about the symbolism of the Sign icon is that it has a connotation of one-way communications from an authority figure to people with less power. The implication is that all of us who use the subreddit are just subject to decisions made on high from others, and any discussion we have about those decisions is irrelevant to the actual decision-makers. That connotation, of course, is particularly inappropriate for our community because some of the important news is about projects run by non-Mojang employees, and because many of the Mojang employees themselves are active and full members of the community centered around the subreddit. Mojang has a reputation for paying a lot of attention to ideas and feedback from the community, and the community largely understands that, and has some expectation that their feedback on the game that they express on the subreddit will likely be paid attention to by the Mojangstas. By doing a Google search, I found:
I feel that it provides at least some evidence for how people view the the symbolism of those two symbols that the site that uses the Paper icon has many people posting in its "News" section, implying that it's a more open community with many empowered members, like the r/minecraft subreddit, and the site that uses the Sign icon for that purpose appear to have all of its news items posted by a single person, who's likely the server owner. It's also perhaps useful to note how the two symbols are used on the Minecraft Wiki. There, the Sign texture is used to represent "Wiki rules", and the Paper texture is used to represent "General disclaimer". That's probably a more appropriate use for those two symbols than using either to represent "News", but the fact that the Sign texture works so well to represent the concept of "rules" shows to me that it's particularly not ideal to represent the concept of "News". We could, of course, ask the help of an artist who's experienced at creating icons or item textures to create an icon to represent the concept of "News", perhaps something like this, but done in a style that fits with flair icons from Minecraft textures. Here are a few artists that we could ask:
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We have our own artist who does the occasional pixel art. |
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@RobinClaassen Preview is up at /r/Mustek. So far implemented:
Productive weekend ;) Anyways, awaiting your feedback before we implement it. (I also made it easier to add more flairs in the future, yay SASS) |
Below is a list of the suggestions made in the "We need a 'Maps' Linkflair" post (http://redd.it/2sb56w). I'm trying to include all suggestions, even those I don't agree with, but I may allow some of my bias to make its way into the manner in which I summarize them. Since they come from multiple people, some of these suggestions are contradictory or mutually exclusive.
All upvote totals are current as of 15-Jan-15 at 3:00 AM EST:
1. Add a "Maps" Linkflair (292 total upvotes from the main post + supportive comments within it): Maps are a major category of content that users have a high level of interest in and actively seek out. Creating a flare for that category would allow users to search for that type of content in a manner that takes advantage of Reddit's powerful system for organizing information.
1a (3 total upvotes, or more, since this was implied in the original proposal, which is currently at 253 upvotes). We should use this custom icon to represent this the "Maps" flair because it's clearer than the item texture used to represent filled maps in-game: http://i.imgur.com/G07b84A.png
1b (7 total upvotes). We should use the item texture used to represent filled maps in-game because it's more recognizable than the image offered above: http://i.imgur.com/lmoYGHD.png
2. Add a "News" Linkflare (11 total upvotes): News is a major category of content that users have a high level of interest in.
2a (7 total upvotes). We should use "a paper or something else" to represent the "News" linkflare.
2b (3 total upvotes). (conditional upon not using the item texture used to represent filled maps in-game to represent the "Maps" linkflare) We should use the item texture used to represent filled maps in-game to represent the "News" linkflare because it looks like a piece of paper with writing on it, like a newspaper.
2c (1 total upvote). We should call this flare "Mojang News", and represent it with the item texture used to represent golden apples in-game.
3. Add a "Textures" Linkflare (1 total upvote): ?
3a (1 total upvote). We should make this a larger category, like "Mods, Plugins, Resource Packs".
Counterargument 1 (1 total upvote): Adding such a flair might focus this subreddit overly in the direction of sharing the type of content that Planet Minecraft already serves as a very good tool for sharing.
Counterargument 2 (1 total upvote): Adding such a flair might take the focus of this subreddit away from other sorts of sharing that make this the main place in which Minecraft players can have a collective voice and create a sense of community identity.
4. Remove the "Let's Play's" linkflare (30 total upvotes): "Let's play" video posts have been unpopular on r/minecraft for years, so keeping it as a category would be unrepresentative of the community's interests. Inclusion of a "Let's Play" flair may also encourage people to spam "let's play" video posts without otherwise contributing to the community, which violates this subreddit's rules, and the anti-self-promotion values of its community.
Counterargument 1 (11 total upvotes): Including a "Let's Play" flair category may provide a way for users to filter out that type of content and discourage people from posting that type of content in other categories.
Counterargument 2 (6 total upvotes [1]): Including a "Let's Play" flair category may provide a way for that type of content to actually become more useful to users, by providing users who are interested in finding that type of content with a means to search through it and easily see how others have rated it.
5. Remove the "Help" linkflare (6 total upvotes [1]): When a post is a request for help, that is typically already self-evident from its title alone. There are also few reasons one can imagine that a user would want to search through past posts with this flair.
Counterargument 1 (6 total upvotes [1]): Implementing a "Help" flare may help to serve the interests of the community by implicitly communicating to users that posts in which people are looking for help are encouraged, which could help those who need help to feel more comfortable asking for it, and others to feel more accepting of them doing so.
5a (6 total upvotes [1]): We may wish to include a "Help" linkflare category, to address the counterargument above, but simply not include a clickable link to search through "Help" posts in the subreddit sidebar, to address the argument in the primary proposal.
6. Relabel the "Creative" flare as "Landscapes, Structures, Models" (6 total upvotes [1]): When a build was not created in Survival mode, users tend to care less about what tools may have been used to create it than its contents. A "Creative" flare is vague. It doesn't add any useful information that we don't already get from from the build not having the "Survival" flare. It also arbitrarily excludes those builds created primarily or entirely with 3rd party tools. A "Landscapes, Structures, Models" flare is a more clearly defined category, and it does communicate useful information about a post that its applied to. It also fills a gap in the group of build flare categories that are delineated by those builds' content ("Redstone", "Command Blocks", and "Maps").
7. Relabel the "Art" flare as "Art in Other Media (drawings, machinima, etc...)" (6 total upvotes [1]): So far, users have applied the "Art" flare to both artistic builds, and to out-of-game works of art. This category would be more useful to people searching through if it applied to only one of these types of submission. If we add a "Landscapes, Structures, Models" linkflare category, all artistic in-game builds should be able to fit in at least one other linkflare category, which frees us up to limit the "Art" category to just works created in some other medium, which makes this category more clearly defined, distinct, and useful.
8. Relabel the "Tutorials" flare as "Useful Videos" (16 total upvotes [1]): ?
Counterargument 1: What constitutes a "Useful Video" is a matter of personal taste. "Useful Videos" is a more vague category than "Tutorials", which makes it less useful.
9. Use the compass item texture for the "Survival" flare (6 total upvotes [1]) (conditional upon us removing the "Help" linkflare): The compass image more clearly represents the concept of "survival" than a gold pickaxe item texture.
10. Use the heart texture used to represent player health for the "Survival" flare (3 total upvotes): The heart health image more clearly represents the concept of "survival" than a gold pickaxe item texture.
Counterargument 1 (1 total upvote): The image of the heart also symbolizes the concepts of "life" and "love", which may make it confusing and less immediately recognizable to people as a symbol for the concept of "survival"
10a (1 total upvote): To address the counterargument above, we may wish to instead use an image to represent the "Survival" flare that includes both the heart health icon and the meat shank hunger icon.
11. Use the Book item texture for the "Tutorial" linkflare (4 total upvotes) (conditional upon us not removing or re-labeling "Tutorials" flare): The Book image more clearly represents the concept of "Tutorials" than an Enchanted book item texture, which extraneous and irrelevant information to the symbolism, making the interpretation of that symbol less intuitive.
11a (1 total upvote): The Written Book item texture (which is a slightly redder version of the "Book" texture) could be even more symbolically appropriate, since in-game that image is used to represent a structured collection of ideas created by a real person.
[1] It should be noted that 6 of the upvotes counted toward for Suggestions 5, 5a, 6,7, and 9; Counterargument 2 of Suggestion 4; and Counterargument 1 of Suggestion 5 came from the same comment, and it may be that not all people who upvoted that comment necessarily intended to show support for all 5 proposals/arguments. Similarly, the 16 upvotes counted for Suggestion 8 came from a comment that also indicated support for the main proposal and Suggestion 4):
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