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Improvements to German-language locales #329

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nchachereau
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Description

This pull request reverts some changes made to the Swiss German locale in #294 but that were in all likelihood unintended (@POBrien333 could you confirm?). Only the translation of new CSL terms was intended, but some differences between locales-de-CH.xml and locales-de-DE.xml were erased. The current pull request asks to restore those (typographical) differences: the ß sign is not in use in Switzerland, and other quotation marks are most commonly used.

Note that I did not revert two other apparently unintended changes:

  • the translation of the abbreviations of the locators "line" and "note" (respectively "Z." and "N." instead of "l." and "n." (the new version seems better to me, it looks like the old abbreviations had simply been left untranslated);
  • "Bde." for the abbreviated plural of "volume", rather than just "Bd."

@denismaier what do you think?

Checklist

  • Check that you're listed as a <translator> in the <info> block at the beginning of the file.

@denismaier
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Yes, ß should be indeed ss. As for the typographical quotes: I don't think institutional guidelines agree on this matter, but at least MS-Word uses «» instead of „“ when the document language is set to "German (Swiss)" so it makes sense to use the same conventions here.

@denismaier
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Why do you think "Bde." was unintended?

Z. looks also good to me, but I'm not sure about "N." or about "Note". I think this should actually be "Anmerkung" and "Anm." The German "Note" sounds like describing music, not like the generic form of both "Fussnote" and "Endnote".

@nchachereau
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As for the typographical quotes: I don't think institutional guidelines agree on this matter, but at least MS-Word uses «» instead of „“ when the document language is set to "German (Swiss)" so it makes sense to use the same conventions here.

I don't know about institutional guidelines. The Swiss, German-language, academic books and journal issues I have at home (granted, mostly history books) all use «», as does the NZZ. (The exceptions I could find were works of fiction (e.g. published in Zurich by Diogenes), that use »«.)

Why do you think "Bde." was unintended?

In the sense that the aforementioned PR #294 only claimed to translate new terms, and this is not a new term. I think @POBrien333 first translated the new terms in locales-de-DE.xml, and then probably used a diff to bring the new translations to locales-de-CH.xml, thereby also inadvertently erasing some differences between the two locales.

Z. looks also good to me, but I'm not sure about "N." or about "Note". I think this should actually be "Anmerkung" and "Anm." The German "Note" sounds like describing music, not like the generic form of both "Fussnote" and "Endnote".

Very good point. I agree. That would also apply to the "long" form of the term ("Anmerkung" rather than "Note"), and maybe also to the German-German and Austrian-German locales, and not only the Swiss-German one… what do you want me to do? Only change the de-CH file, or all locales? In this PR, or a new one?

@bwiernik
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bwiernik commented Jan 8, 2025

Can you please make all the changes in this PR?

@nchachereau
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nchachereau commented Jan 9, 2025

I had a quick look at blame for locales-de-DE.xml and it looks like the translation of "note" as "Note" was introduced 16 years ago by @rmzelle, and has not been touched since. It is probably rarely used as a locator, but nevertheless 6 German-language styles* have corrected "N." to "Anm.", so I went ahead and changed the translation in all German locales.

*nccr-mediality.csl, zeithistorische-forschungen.csl, zeitschrift-fur-kunstgeschichte.csl, uni-fribourg-theologie.csl, journal-fur-kunstgeschichte.csl, zeitschrift-fur-theologie-und-philosophie.csl

@nchachereau nchachereau changed the title Revert unintented changes to Swiss German locale Improvements to German-language locales Jan 9, 2025
@nchachereau
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(I think the PR should be ready now.)

@denismaier
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I think that looks good, but you should add yourself as a translator to all three locales.

@nchachereau
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Oh right. I have done so, even if arguably you are the translator here 😉

@adam3smith adam3smith merged commit 3c4fe08 into citation-style-language:master Jan 9, 2025
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@adam3smith
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Besten Dank

@POBrien333
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Vielen Dank :)

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5 participants