Different game modes regarding to hints and help

[Florikoeln]

It is possbible to check if a number is correct by using "show errors" (questionmark), and if "one error" is given use undo and try another number. A game where this tactic is used is not counted "used help"

Solution: either count a game as "used help" when "show errors" is used or when within a game both, "show errors" as well as "undo" are used.

[mccartney]

This tactic can also be used with ? and undo.

[meikpiep]

@Florikoeln @mccartney I think you both mean the same thing.

[meikpiep]

The point is valid and cheating is currently possible, you are right.

I personally like to play with only a few uses oft the '?' vor hinter button: If I'm unsure, I press the button. Mostly, there is no error and I continue the game. But if there are errors, I undo one or multiple moves, double check that no errors remain by using the hint button again.

It's clear that I solved such games with help, but the current ui highly suggests to use the hint button. If we change the semantics, the ui must reflect this clearly.

Maybe, a 'strict mode' without a hint button would help, but I will think about solutions.

Feel free to contribute your thoughts!

[mccartney]

I think I play the same way as @meikpiep described. I use the ? fairly often just to make sure I am not losing my time. One can say it's cheating and actually I am artificially making the game easier than it is. Yes.
At the same time I don't use "show me the solution" or "is it 1? no, undo. Is it 2? no, undo. Is it 3? yes, good".

Looking at it from a broader perspective I think there might be different preferences by different people, including (but likely not limited to):

1. Everything is "allowed", hints, "show errors", reveal this cage, etc. I want to have fun and not stress.
2. Let me solve the puzzle myself, but just let me check if I am on the right path.
3. Just a piece of paper and pencil. Let me figure it out myself.

My hunch is that all three options have its fans.

And since we are not having any public score board or any exchange of results, I am not sure if it matters much how we judge and what do we allow.

Maybe it matters for people who would like to switch from (2) to (3). And they would want to have the strict mode to enforce that goal.

To distinguish between (1) and (2) - I fail to have an example where it would be needed.

[meikpiep]

Thanks @mccartney, makes perfect sense to me, great to read how you sort this out.

I will think about how to support these player types effective. I'm not sure if it is just a 'no hint button' option or something else.

[meikpiep]

@Florikoeln What do you say - would a kind of mode suffice where the hint button is totally invisible or reacts after a warning only and marks a game as cheated as you described it? Any ideas?

[mccartney]

Thinking about it more. Maybe it's just enough to add a setting (off by default): "consider ? as cheating" (or whatever nice term we want to use).

[Florikoeln]

@Florikoeln What do you say - would a kind of mode suffice where the hint button is totally invisible or reacts after a warning only and marks a game as cheated as you described it? Any ideas?

The only impact of using "?" and "undo" could be the statistics (the game is counted as solved without help).

I as a strict referee I would say that using "?" is help. But I agree, that it is very useful (and often used by me). Therefore I would agree to @mccartney to add an option "consider ? help" (plus maybe "consider undo as help") which could be off by default.

[KranzAklilu]

@Florikoeln I agree with your suggestion and I think adding a row on the statistic page for (Puzzles solved without help) would be a great addition.
Another suggestion would be to limit the amount of times you could use the ? sign per puzzle. as it'd encourage not to use it every time. I'd argue it would be more fun and rewarding when solving puzzles.