Thanks for working on this.

Sadly, icons are currently (LO 6.4) blurry, but this is also the case for normal toolbars.

The icons are not blurry on Ubuntu.

Also, there seems to be no way to show icon+text as in other tabs.

I think this is a major dealbreaker. If we include a "proper" interface option for the tabbed mode in LibreOffice, we would want it to look closer to what it does in Word.

You can still enable any old-style toolbars in the tabbed interface in LibreOffice and while not conforming to the looks of the tabbed interface, it looks much better overall:

I personally think that the Tabbed UI mode is still pretty half-baked in its interactions and looks, and it seems that the Document Foundation agrees with me, which is why the classic UI mode is still the default. Until we can make the plugin UI look more like the one in Word (i.e. with labels and different sized icons) I don't think we want to make any UI changes for LibreOffice.

Hi guys,

This would be the perfect time to look at this request, as part of the Google summer of code the document foundation / Collabora are sponsoring a student to continue the previous unfinished work on the extension toolbar in the tabbed interface.

The request to have labels and text is absolutely valid and needed. As coders for Zotero you can influence how your extension can be displayed and function and help to provide the best possible experience there for Zotero users who want to mainly (only) use free software. You would also be helping Libreoffice and free software in general. A win win I'd say.

See the announcement from the document foundation.
https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/projects/#6523754777149440

@JimmyLeeChou As far as I can tell the Google Summer of Code project this person is doing is not related to the notebook bar integration of extensions. At least that is not mentioned once in the document they specify for rough project outline https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/11/11/additions-to-libreoffice/

Thanks for working on this.

Sadly, icons are currently (LO 6.4) blurry, but this is also the case for normal toolbars.

The icons are not blurry on Ubuntu.

Also, there seems to be no way to show icon+text as in other tabs.

I think this is a major dealbreaker. If we include a "proper" interface option for the tabbed mode in LibreOffice, we would want it to look closer to what it does in Word.

You can still enable any old-style toolbars in the tabbed interface in LibreOffice and while not conforming to the looks of the tabbed interface, it looks much better overall:

I personally think that the Tabbed UI mode is still pretty half-baked in its interactions and looks, and it seems that the Document Foundation agrees with me, which is why the classic UI mode is still the default. Until we can make the plugin UI look more like the one in Word (i.e. with labels and different sized icons) I don't think we want to make any UI changes for LibreOffice.

Just to refute the statement that the Tabbed UI is half-baked and that is the reason that the classic UI is still the default.
The classic UI is the default because all LibO documentation is done based on the classic UI. It's also because the development tools used to make the TabbedBar didn't have development.
The Tabbed Bar is considered mature and ready and that's why it was released. I know this because I contributed to its development. So please use another excuse for why you guys simply don't accept this commit.

Please consider accepting this commit for the people that use LibO that WANT integration in the Tabbed UI. This has literally no implication to Zotero and you support Zotero users that use LibO Tabbed UI.

Hi,

I'm the designer of LibreOffice tabbed ui and worked last year together with an gsoc student on make extension support possible for notebookbar layouts.

Thanks you are working on update the LibreOffice Zotero Extension (one of the best extension out there) for Notebookbar

If you need informations how to do the extension everything will be found here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar/Extensions

Compare to MS Word it's not possible to have icons in different sizes with different label arrangement, ... The reason is simple. At the end of the summer I prefer to have a easy to use extension support for LibreOffice notebookbar. In addition LibO offers more than one notebookbar layout, there is

• tabbed
• tabbed compact
• groupedbar compact

and the extension should work everywhere. So the compromize is that you see there icons like in the toolbar. I plan to have different layouts for the different implementations like

• tabbed has large icon + label on bottom
• tabbed compact has small icons + labels right to the label.

If you have any questions, let me know. The idea behind the extension support was not bad and respect the development resources LibreOffice has.

The Tabbed Bar is considered mature and ready and that's why it was released. I know this because I contributed to its development. So please use another excuse for why you guys simply don't accept this commit.

We do not make excuses, we provide reasons. You may disagree with those reasons, but you will have to come up something more substantial than that. The Tabbed interface is released, but it's certainly not mature.

Just to reiterate what I've said elsewhere on this issue: if LO were serious about the tabbed interface, then extension developers wouldn't have to make any changes to their extensions, and any extension UI should auto-convert to a tab. This was the case with Word when they developed their tabbed interface, there was no additional work required for existing extensions and there's no reason why LibreOffice couldn't do the same. Users or LO community having to pressure the developers of various LO extensions to add tabbed UI support, when this could be done on LibreOffice's side is silly and creates needless confrontations and/or requires spending time and effort that could be spent more meaningfully. This is precisely one of the reasons why the Tabbed UI appears neglected or an after-thought looking from outside.

@DarkknightAK Is there any public place where extension developers can provide feedback to LO regarding tabbed UI? If not, the concerns expressed above, along with improved documentation with an example extension that features all customization options would be great.

You literally have a dev from LibO explaining you why the Tabbed bar works the way it works. There's a small difference between an Office software developed by a multi-billion dollar company with thousands of devs and an open-source project with (very) limited man power.
Also, you had someone providing you with a commit that adds this support. What more do you want to accept this commit? It seems there's just a lack of goodwill from one open source project to another.

@adomasven sure feedback is always welcome. Please use bugs.documentfoundation.org/

It was also my idea to use the current .xml files which was used for the standard toolbar for notebookbar. I think the idea behind the separate API was that the extension developers has more settings. compare to the icons you see in the tabbs, there is also an drop dowm button (on the right of the extension tab) where the commands were shown. So with a separate API the extension develper can decide which commands will be used in the tab and in the drop dowm menu.

However LibreOffice is an Community project, which mean, I do the work in my spare time. GSOC is nice but it's sometimes difficult to have a final solution and my hope that the gsoc student work on notebookbar after the project, was naive.

However I saw that there is already an patch for Zotero notebookbar implementation otherwise I can submit one if needed.

You literally have a dev from LibO explaining you why the Tabbed bar works the way it works.

The hostile tone is not appreciated. See Zotero forums etiquette which applies here too.

What more do you want to accept this commit?

Stated above.

It seems there's just a lack of goodwill from one open source project to another.

Unfortunately any projects, open source or not do not operate on goodwill alone. Looks, ease of use, implementation efficiency, technical debt, etc. of various features also have to be considered.

adomasven sure feedback is always welcome. Please use bugs.documentfoundation.org/

Are there any other avenues, perhaps a general notebook bar planning bug or similar? I've several bugs submitted on the documentfoundation bugtracker, for arguably much more serious usability issues that have not got addressed so I'm not very enthusiastic about posting there.

It was also my idea to use the current .xml files which was used for the standard toolbar for notebookbar. I think the idea behind the separate API was that the extension developers has more settings.

So the way this is solved in Word is that they updated their XML schema for the notebook version and if the extension had the old schema/version XML they just took the existing toolbar and mapped it to a tab. If the extension has the new XML format then the UI specified there is used instead. Of course they completely abandoned their classic UI when they switched to the notebook one, so they had less backwards-compatibility considerations.

Are there any other avenues, perhaps a general notebook bar planning bug or similar? I've several bugs submitted on the documentfoundation bugtracker, for arguably much more serious usability issues that have not got addressed so I'm not very enthusiastic about posting there.

No and I'm sorry that bugtracker didn't fit well for you. I also understood that it is sometime frustrated. In addition I'm the designer of Notebookbar layouts so I use the gtk gui Glade to do the gui files, but I can't fix code bugs and there is only one developer how is working spare time on fix notebookbar bugs. Yes this can be frustrated.

So the way this is solved in Word is that they updated their XML schema for the notebook version and if the extension had the old schema/version XML they just took the existing toolbar and mapped it to a tab. If the extension has the new XML format then the UI specified there is used instead. Of course they completely abandoned their classic UI when they switched to the notebook one, so they had less backwards-compatibility considerations.

The time shadule didn't give me the option to add it to the gsoc project. maybe in the future.

We plan to give the LibreOffice users an initial UI selection dialog and therefore it would be nice to have Zotero extension support available. And the reason for the release is

1. it's a good alternative to the toolbar layout and work ok
2. more users see that LibO offers different UI's
3. maybe we find a new developer for the different UI's

Hi guys,

I just wanted to comment on this topic as I think it is an important issue for many, many people. I think the last comment from Rosmaninho came across as a little passive aggressive. I'm sure it was not intended in that way at all.

Clearly both sides (Zotero and Libreoffice) are passionate about providing the best experience to their users. I would encourage where possible that both sides work together collaborately to produce something that benefits both projects because then everyone benefits with Free software being used more widely.

Please aim for a truly first class tool through collaboration that can be offered to users worldwide, that respects the end users liberty and is gratis. There are thousands (if not millions) of people that use Zotero and Libreoffice. I would love to install both on a system for those in need and disadvantaged that works as well as proprietary solutions. This would be a fantastic goal to aspire to.

Between both projects I'm sure the old saying is true, 'where there is a will there's a way.'

It appears that the Libreoffice extension support is not at the level where the Zotero collagues believe what they want to release is possible. But there is a work around albeit not ideal.

If both projects collaborate with the aim of increasing user satisfaction and functionality across their respective projects then everyone wins and ultimately the users will thank you both for it.
Regards,

Jimmy

This branch provides the extension support as defined by LibreOffice.
LibreOffice, as opposed to Microsoft, as limited resources for development and cannot provide the same level of support for the add-on as Microsoft can in a reasonable timescale.
Adomas believes that LibO should provide the exact same level of support and thus prefers to withhold a highly requested feature because another open source project cannot provide the same level of feature support as a piece of closed source software of a multi-billion dollar corporation.

This commit provides the requested support, is an improvement on the current Zotero add-on because: 1) it prevents Zotero from creating a distasteful toolbar if a LibO user selects the Tabbed UI, (2) works as the LibO devs decided that extensions should work in LibO, (3) has no conflicts with the base branch. The cons are: 1) It does not look like the Zotero plugin in Microsoft Word. Thus the issue is purely a matter of personal preference from one person that is hindering support to Zotero and LibO users of a highly requested feature that provides much more benefits than the perceived drawback.
I would like to request that other Zotero devs chime in and that this commit is merged to master.

If the said dev has an issue with LibO implementation of extension support, it would be nice to see an offer of collaboration to improve the LibO extension support to his desired standard instead of making snide remarks about the work done with limited resources from the LibO side and the blocking of highly sought after Zotero features by users.

Edit: Funny that you talk about "spirit of open source" after trashing the work done by LibO devs in the Tabbed UI. The irony is delicious. And no, I am not bullying you, I am having a discussion. You seem to be uncapable of refuting my arguments without resorting to personal attacks (such as calling me a bully) and threats of banning and silencing. Projecting your bullying and abuse of moderation power of my messages does not make me the bully.

Edit 2: By the way, that bug that you linked in LibO Bugzilla is not ignored. You had devs replying there, and bug importance was bumped recently. Welcome to development. I also have bugs in LibO for years that still haven't been addressed because of lack of man power. So it seems that there is some pettiness behind the boycott of this commit. Nice to know, and subscription cancelled to Zotero.

Edit3 @jeisoncp you can download the extension wit support for the Tabbed UI from here: https://github.com/Rosmaninho/zotero-libreoffice-integration

This branch provides the extension support as defined by LibreOffice.
LibreOffice, as opposed to Microsoft, as limited resources for development and cannot provide the same level of support for the add-on as Microsoft can.
Adomas believes that LibO should provide the exact same level of support and thus prefers to whithold a highly requested feature because another open source project cannot provide the same level of feature support as a multi-billion dollar corporation.

Zotero is also an open-source project with limited resources. We have thousands of feature requests that we have to prioritize daily, some of which often get delayed because often figuring out a proper presentation for those features is not obvious. Doing things suboptimally creates 2 problems:

1. Confused users which come to Zotero forums and then take up time in support. Mind you that all Zotero developers read the Zotero support forums and provide excellent help, but this does come at development time cost.
2. More time spent later in reimplementing the solution in an optimal manner.

Thus, if a feature is not very highly requested or used by many users, and it is not trivial to get an optimal solution, we often delay it.

This commit provides the requested support and has no conflicts with the base branch, thus the issue is purely a matter of personal preference from one person that is hindering support to Zotero and LibO users of a highly requested feature.

This statement is simply not true. Zotero+LibreOffice users are an overwhelming minority of our users and an even smaller number of those users use the notebook interface. From what I recall we may have had one other user besides yourself ask for this on our forums. This is simply not a very important feature, especially since you can just use the toolbar in LibreOffice. It's a convenience thing for a small fraction of our overall userbase that we cannot even get a decent solution for.

Or if the said dev has an issue with LibO implementation, it would be nice to see an offer of collaboration to improve the LibO extension support to his desired standard instead of making snide remarks about the work done with limited resources from the LibO side.

I am not making any snide remarks about anything. I am communicating plainly and openly, and there are good reasons to believe that the notebookbar UI is not a very high priority overall from Document Foundation's standpoint. I am sure there are individual developers who have invested their time and resources to it and are attached to their work, but from the product standpoint of LibreOffice the feature is at the very least not very well prepared for extension integration, but there are also other signs of it not being a very highly prioritized.

On the other hand, if anyone is making snide remarks, it is you, @Rosmaninho. Part of the spirit of open source software is that if you disagree with how someone is developing something, you can always make a fork and make your own better version. On the other hand, trying to bully the developers into accepting a feature that they have legitimate reasons not to accept is nothing but counterproductive. Having said that, all your future comments will be hidden or removed from this repo. If you want to change Zotero developers minds' about how highly requested this feature is, the place to do that would be on the Zotero forums, where you already have a thread. Once we have more users looking for this we might reconsider adding a suboptimal solution.

In the meantime, we're happy to discuss what improvements to the notebookbar extension support we need with LibreOffice developers, although perhaps that discussion should take place in LibreOffice's web-space given it concerns all LibreOffice extensions, not just Zotero. Unfortunately I'm not sure where that would be as other Zotero requests to LibreOffice have been ignored (some for nearly 6 years!)

@adomasven How I you enabled this extension tab? It's native?

The extension tab was added with LibreOffice 6.4 (released 5 months ago) and is always visible to show the LibO users that there are extensions available for LibO. In addition this year a gsoc student will add an integrated extension search.

@DarkknightAK Thanks! I'm using the LTS version, that's the reason.

Hey, I would just chime in on this discussion. I'm working for a German company providing software to public services, as part of this software we also develop addons for MS-Office and LibreOffice.

One of our customers requested the adoption of the new NotebookbarUI and we were glad to see that the support for extensions was opened a couple months ago. Yet, we and our customer aren't entirely happy about the missing labels either and while investigating how we could add them I have found this thread (I was looking for Open Source implementations of the extension API). While the current situation is a lot better than having these toolbars taking up screen space and we understand the necessary priorisation of development resources, full API support would be highly anticipated by us and our customer.

Thanks for your work, I privately highly appreciate both LibreOffice and Zotero!

@adomasven How I you enabled this extension tab? It's native?

I just got the update, but the Extension tab is empty: