Web conference notes, 2022.09.29 (MDS Working Group)
MDS Working Group
- Every other Thursday at 9am PT, 12pm ET, 5/6pm CET
Zoom Registration Link: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZAscOmhpjIuHNakPx6CNbACpjUjw1Gsucr4
One tap mobile: +19294362866,,84170989462#,,,,*612987# US (New York) - though we encourage Zoom
Note: Attendees register upon entry into the Zoom meeting. An attendee count will be posted here after the meeting:
33 Attendees
Main Topics
Carshare Mode kickoff
Part of Modes Month.
WGSC Meeting Organizers
- Host: Sebastian Berthaud, Blue Systems
- Facilitator: Michael Schnuerle, OMF
- Outreach: Michael Schnuerle, OMF
- Note taker: TBD
- How do we reconcile and connect trips across MDS modes
- I don't think this can be solved yet in MDS 2.0. We should look at this again once modes are up and running and see what coordination options make sense
- Comment in github -- Where operators in warehouse, how do we track that either trip type and event and level of details
- Need ideas from working group on how to add this to spec - new fields or guidance?
- EVENTs to add: REMOTE START and REMOTE END
- added to draft PR as remote_start and remote_end events
- HOW TO ADD CHARGING EVENTS to the STATE or EVENT?
- added to draft PR as charging_start, charging_end, fueling_start, fueling_end events
- Break into two fields to show electric battery percent and fuel percent and fuel capacity
- added battery/fuel percent/capacity to Agency and Provider were applicable, updating existing
battery_pctfloat field tobattery_percentinteger 1-100 field.
- added battery/fuel percent/capacity to Agency and Provider were applicable, updating existing
- Name fields 'fuel' and 'battery' for clarity
- Done
- Add separate exit and explicit fees (see passenger services)
- Added similar to passenger services
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Zoom Recording: password:
2n^aNFps - Meeting Slides
New members:
Seren Pendleton-Knoll: Gig Car Share
Kim Pearson: Seattle DOT
Paul Hillsdon, transportation planner, City of Surrey in BC, Canada.
Ryan McCann : Denver!
Sondre Vasseng : Oslo
Host: Sebastian Berthaud, Blue Systems
Facilitator: Michael Schnuerle, OMF
House keeping - Angela: Background can be found here https://github.com/openmobilityfoundation/mobility-data-specification/wiki/MDS-Working-Group
Also can see the agendas and can join the mailing list
Andrew Glass Hastings: September is MDS modes month looking at incorporating all these modes in MDS and adding additional modes
Angela: MDS was created for MM and can be used for use cases outside micro mobility. Shifting the architecture to accommodate new modes and uses cases around DR, Car Share and Passenger Services. We made lot of PS and now concentrating on DR and CS.
Michael: Car share in the MDS refers to vehicle for use by a driver or passenger for moving people or goods around. Please reach out and put the comments - Github Issue #640
We had a round table in July 2021 -- with car share member network, understanding the gap and facilitate the discussion on the city requirements and data sharing. We need to focus on each mode individually,
Slides - Car share Use cases:
Flexible rates, fleet info, service area exit has privacy concerns, Idle time, parking rule and policy. Other use cases can be added to the comments.
Slides - What is MDS now
Uses in car share and make few modifications. Individual trip routes, Start and end locations, speed policy, Vehicle ID etc.
Slide- What is not in MDS now vehicle equipment. Accessories, vehicle characteristics etc.
In the latest version we have policy requirements. City operating policy on certain mode. Provide start location and time and ID. City also want to capture optional fields. Parking image or trip cost. There are also disallow routes. Can specify that too. New fields are going to be in the options. Up to the jurisdiction to decide what to include and not
Slide - Car share -- trip types
Circling a block or driving a reservation
Customer: making a trip
Relocate: operator moving to parking
Maintenance: moving for maintenance purpose by the operator
Journey is linking to the multiple trips. Customer can reserve the car and do multiple trips in a journey, and they have a journey ID.
Journey can be just one trip -- maintenance trip etc.
Car share -- beside these trip types. Structure of the car share in MDs
Peter Panov: Besides trips, there is a scenario people can access without moving around. Cities can track this. For eg. Cleaning service. Somebody wants to report something got stolen. Customer forgot stuff and allowed to go to the vehicle but not to start it.
MS: Vehicle access trip type, another option is to add them the event field. What are the uses cases for that sort of definition.
Vladimir: dock less scooter program, there would be locations where warehouses, not change the statuses, show active. Special operations like in warehouses or in locations near LAX, large parking lots, where you are moving vehicles in that parking lot.
MS: In scooter and also in car share those should not be showing up in MDS. Locations not in PROW, in warehouses may not be in the field at all.
VG: create exclusion area where the warehouses or parking lot.
Peter Panov: private parking. Moving vehicles around in maintenance facility. Key is in the telemetric an. With differ access. Users have some garage means or access to digitally equipped them and allow them to move around. Easy for operator to exclude those hitting MDS.
Ryan McCann: helpful to type of car share station based, peer models, free floating vehicle, and next is linking modes, eg micro mobility -- are those being dropped off by cars or vehicles.
MS : linking modes is talks in terms of cross modes. Operation, it is challenging. Flag on: reconcile or connect the trip across MDS modes
Action item: How do we reconcile trips across MDS modes
Ryan: make transit stops included and assume base on trip end
MS: Looking it more explicitly might be interesting
Action item: Comment in github -- Where operators in warehouse how do we track that either trip type and event and level of details
Peter: what do we want and not want, guidance, suggest the OP to include to give only if city asks for it
Slide -- New states and EVENTS
Idling: Vehicle is not moving but the engine is still on.
STOP: On a trip, but stopped with engine off
Discussion in Delivery Robots is applied here. Trip pause happens and idling and trip resume happens. Cancellation is added as a new across the board.
Any other states you want to discuss about car share.
Peter: CS should start remotely to prevent the battery from dying. Is it a state outside of the trip.
MS: City may want to know
Action item: EVENT to add: REMOTE start or REMOTE END
MS: Need an event to get it to the state.
PP: For a car reservation, idling can be a first step. Then they move.
MS: Agree. Part of this work to define idling, some thresholds 10 s can be considered as an idling
Peter Panov (Lacuna) to Everyone 09:37 AM
That seems to be the main difference between 'maintenance' as already envisioned and movement within a lot - the former uses PROW and cities care about, the latter does not and at the very least Vlad doesn't really want to see
From Masha Bykin (Gig Car Share) to Everyone 09:40 AM
stopping is important for parking reporting to cities
Action item: HOW TO ADD CHARGING EVENTS to the STATE or event.
Lukas Böhm to Everyone 09:40 AM
What about charging events (EV sharing services)?
From Vladimir Gallegos LADOT to Everyone 09:41 AM
combustion engine idling/ vs EV idling in GHG calculations would be helpful.
From Seren Pendleton-Knoll, Gig Car Share to Everyone 09:41 AM
Second Lukas. State when it's charging, as well as state when it's fueling (for gas)
Trip Attributes
PP: fuel percent won't work for hybrid vehicles,
From Matt Davis (Populus, he/him) to Everyone 09:43 AM
Hybrids have both, suggest fuel and battery percent fields.
PP: Battery and fuel is going to be fine. Fuel cell as fuel.
MS: May be Break into two fields to show electric battery type percent and fuel percent. Fuel capacity also can be broken down.
From Masha Bykin (Gig Car Share) to Everyone 09:44 AM
we call them battery and liquid fuel
From Peter Panov (Lacuna) to Everyone 09:46 AM
Something very relevant to carshare operators even for non-hybrid gasoline vehicles is the battery level (lead acid 12V battery). At least some electric vehicles also have a lead acid 12V battery, separate from the main (likely Lithium Ion) battery.
The 12V battery doesn't power the vehicle's motion but can be essential for the vehicle to work.
From Seren Pendleton-Knoll, Gig Car Share to Everyone 09:47 AM
Vehicle attribute: EV, gas, plug in or gas hybrid
From Peter Panov (Lacuna) to Everyone 09:47 AM
That said, the only scenario I see for cities caring about that lead acid battery level is if they want to track how many vehicles are usable, which they are likely happier tracking by which vehicles are reservable (and generally dead-battery vehicles ought not be reservable...)
Slide - Vehicle attributes:
MS: What other attributes?
Ryan - Bike/ski rack or adaptor in the vehicle
MS: So, there is vehicle equipment, we define this accessible option specifically in accessibility. We can add these here.
MS: It comes from GBFS, For eg. Min and max weight for the child seat
Ryan: Accessories vs equipment ok.
MS: Accessories can be added to attributes. Adding those would be useful. Adding them to accessible field. Can list in github. But changing equipment is useful I think
Slide - Fare attributes:
Seren Pendleton-Knoll:Low-income attribute
Try to avoid the identifier of the driver. So try to avoid low income. Can be reported as optional if it is important.
Becky Edmonds: PS has parking or misc. fees
Action item: Add separate exit and explicit fee
Slide- DISCUSSION STARTERS
Slide- OVERLAP WITH CURB DATA SPEC stop and end locations within the city.
Define curb zone and car share enter that zone and get data entering or exiting
Nice view of the curb and need to CDS and MDS can take info from this. Few use cases overlap with car share and passenger services.
Schedule and next steps: Modes in general and all modes
Deep dive into CS Issues can be discussed in the meeting
Still a lot of work to do.
